Shannon Miller’s Incredible Story: Olympic Champion, Cancer Survivor, Mom and Entrepreneur

I had broken and dislocated my left elbow ten weeks prior to the Olympic trials. And my coach was the one Steve um came to me the the day I was getting rolled out of the uh hospital after surgery. They put in a a screw to hold the bone together. And I remember he looked down at me and he could have said all those things about, you know, oh, you know, it's too bad or these things happen. And he looked at me and he said, All right, looks like we have some work to do. I'll see you in the gym tomorrow.

Hello everyone, welcome to another edition of Mac Daddy, Patrick Mackerroe, Rich Big Daddy Selgado here, and we are so pleased to have one of the all-time gymnasts in U.S. history, uh part of the magnificent seven, the one and only Shannon Miller. Thank you for joining us. Great to see you.

Absolutely great to be with you both.

We are um going over your resume and the gold medals, all the medals, very impressive. Uh, but maybe more impressive, you survived your ovarian cancer 16 years ago. You're three degrees now, and uh you're a business owner, and of course, most importantly, near and dear to my heart as a father of three daughters, a successful mom as well. So, how do you balance it all?

I you know, I think as a parent we realize that it's more of a juggling act than a balancing act. But um, I you know, I treat it a lot like I do in sport. It's you know, you just get up every day, you have a goal, no matter how big or small that goal is, and you try to achieve it, and you do the best you can. And there's some failure along the way, but you get up and you keep going.

Yeah, there's a lot of failure in the sport that I took up in tennis, a lot of losing. There's a lot of failure, obviously, in what you did in gymnastics. So take us back to sort of your early years when you first got into it, and what uh what was it about gymnastics that you loved?

Well, I kind of fell into gymnastics. I was, I think about five years old when um me and my older sister, my sister's two years older than me, and we just started trying to learn how to do flips and somersaults on our parents' furniture, and that did not usually go very well. So uh my parents decided it kind of looks like gymnastics. They were not gymnasts, we knew nothing about the sport. I had never seen the Olympics. So when we went to this gym, basically a local gym, a few miles down the street, and I got to go in and I got to run and jump and play and jump in the foam pit and somersault and do whatever I wanted, and no one told me to stop. It was amazing. It was just, you know, kid in a candy store, and I absolutely fell in love with the sport. Uh, my sister moved on to swimming and some other sports after that, but I was hooked. It's all I ever wanted to do.

I mean, I have an older brother too who is pretty successful in my sport, a little more successful than me, but do you think having your sister there, you know, I mean, first certainly for me, I have two older brothers. Um, I kind of wanted to do whatever my brothers did, and that included other sports as well. Was that kind of what got Shannon going for you as a young girl?

Absolutely. That's all I ever wanted to do was just be exactly like my older sister. I had followed her into dance at five years old, um, or maybe four years old uh the year before gymnastics, only because I cried and begged and begged my grandmother to pay for the lessons just so I could do something that she was doing. But my parents say it kind of started early. I actually wore braces on my legs as a baby because they were severely turned in and they weren't sure if I was going to walk or walk correctly. And my parents say I would just drag that little bar and those braces around and try to do everything my sister was doing, and I just would not be slowed down, and I think that just kind of followed me up into gymnastics. But when she went on to swimming, I thought, nope, it's too early, it's too cold, and I was having too much fun.

Well, look, you had the competitive edge even at a young age. I mean, think about it. You're saying you're dragging yourself all these places, trying to do everything that your sister's doing. So you had it going on, it was instilled in you. And and that that you could say is where uh the championship blood begins.

I think so. I mean, I think those things are ingrained at an early age for me. The goal setting and the structure, it came very naturally. I just wanted to challenge myself and figure out how far I could push myself to learn something new.

You know, I'm sitting here, um, Shannon, at a tennis academy that I run with my brother here, right in the heart of New York City. I know you grew up in Oklahoma. Um, and but when you start to get into serious gymnastics training, because we have, you know, thousands of kids that come through our academy, all different levels. You know, the highest level want to play in college or, you know, maybe become professionals. But you know, the the road is tough and the road is long. I know that personally. What was that like for you once you started to get into more competitive gymnastics? And when did that happen?

I started, well, it was interesting because where we started gymnastics was a local club. It did not have a competitive team at all, no competitive program. And at one point, the owner of the gym, who was also my coach, made a very difficult decision as a business owner and came to about eight of us and said, if you girls really want to start competing, I would suggest we just can't handle it. We can't handle the funding for it. I would suggest these, you know, few gyms if you want to try out at those, and kind of gave us his blessing to to move on to something that that we could grow into. And uh I tried out at a couple of gyms, and then I tried out at one called Dynamo, which was basically a dozen girls where he was renting out of uh renting out space from Bart Connor's gymnastics academy in Norman, Oklahoma. And uh, and I again fell in love with really the structure and the goal setting, and these dozen girls that were part of this team, they were two, three, four years older than me. So every day I went into the gym, I was challenged and I got to see what the possibility was. Maybe I could learn those skills and and do those things that those girls are doing. And I loved that. It was um a little bit more focused than some of the other gyms, but in my mind, I wasn't there to just kind of be a participant. I wanted to learn something, I wanted to achieve something, not about gold medals or anything like that. I still had literally never seen the Olympics at that time. I just wanted to learn all these crazy skills.

So Norman, Oklahoma. Sooners or cowboys?

Sooners.

Um I'm interested in, you know, listening to you talk about the jumping and the flipping and how much you enjoyed that initially, and then you're transitioning now to, you know, a more competitive environment. Was it a combination of both that like got you going, or was it just a physical activity of it, or would did you get to a point where you're like now I want to win too?

I think it became a combination. I started gymnastics when I was five. I started competitive, started competing in gymnastics at nine years old when I had moved to this new gym. And for me, that was a really great step because I had been training all of these skills and even a few routines, but you had no place to showcase it. It'd be like, you know, playing playing tennis in the yard, hitting the ball against the garage, but you never actually get to go play. And so for me to be able to showcase this is what I've been working on, and can I hit it at the right time, in the right place? You know, what kind of score can I get? How close to a 10.0 can I achieve? So then you had that second layer of competitiveness that that came in. And I am highly, highly competitive as an individual, not so much against other people, but against myself. How perfect can I make that routine?

Yeah, and gymnastics is interesting. You know, a little bit like, I mean, swimming is one-on-one, or it's you against the time, yes, against your opponent's tennis. It's really is just you're trying to beat your opponent. Where I mean in gymnastics, it, you know, to me it's fascinating because not only are you trying to, you know, beat the other gymnast, but it's like you just said, it's really about yourself, right? Because you're not, you're just competing with the score and the judges as opposed to the you know the girl that just did the routine before you. So how's that? I'm I'm interested in the mentality of that.

So I settled on a certain mentality very early on, and I think I was the mental side of sport, which you both know is so critical. I think that came a little bit easier to me because I was so shy growing up. I was so painfully shy that I kind of lived in my own little bubble anyway. So to block out the crowd, to block out the noise, to focus, um, to do all those things came very naturally to me. The mentality of going in and competing to me was always about the score. And back then, 10.0 was the highest score you could achieve. And so if I went in to every competition and said, okay, on every single routine, I'm gonna get as close to a 10.0 as I possibly can, how do I do that? That's all I ever needed to know. I never needed to watch other athletes or watch the scoreboard or any of that, because it was always about just get as close to the perfect 10 as I possibly could. And as I began competing in world championships and Olympic Games as part of a team, which you're kind of kind of thrown together at the last minute to be on a team, um, nothing changed. And so when your goals align, my individual goal was to get as close to a perfect 10 as I could on each event, and that was the best thing that could happen for the team as well. Those goals align, and I think that's when the magic happens.

Let me ask you this. I uh just to go off the beaten path. Besides gymnastics, what's your next sport? What else did you what else did you do? You know, because we we do interviews with certain people, and they always say, you know, hey, I was this and this, but my other love might have been, you know, another sport, or I really enjoyed playing this other sport, but obviously I became successful in what I did. So let's uh tell us.

At the time when I was in competing in gymnastics, there was nothing else. Nothing else even came close to my love of gymnastics. When I retired, it's funny, as an Olympian, you retire and you think, oh, well, hey, I was pretty good at this sport. What's something that looks similar? Maybe I could double sport, maybe I could go back as a different sport. And so I did try figure skating because I felt like that kind of was very similar. It's not, it's very hard landings, it's very cold, and it's very early in the morning. So no, so that did not work. Um, so I think I kind of gave up a little bit after that. But you know, the the brain's always going. Um, I like to be physically active. I want to always be able to stay up with my kids. Um, tennis is the only thing that I have a really hard time playing because my shoulder's basically been rebuilt. But um, I like to golf. Not great, but I love it. And um even did jujitsu for a while and uh just try to be active as much as possible and game for kind of anything that comes along, I'll give it a try.

Well, well, he he he's a big football guy, right? So I think you know the the toll that football takes on the body is significant. Uh I, you know, a little bit different in tennis, although I'm on my fourth shoulder surgery, so I hear you're there. But the toll that gymnastics takes has got to be pretty intense. Because I mean, when we watch you ladies and the guys as well at the at the at the Olympics and other events, it's like you do those flips and those lands. I mean, the jarring, yeah, that's gotta be um, you know, like as you're getting to to be, you know, a little bit older. I mean, do you f how much do you feel that now at your age?

You know, it's interesting, and and I was very, very fortunate. My coach had um even way back then when the Olympics and college gymnastics were two very different sports. You kind of did one track or the other, it wasn't combined like it is today. But back then he had actually coached in college and college-age gymnasts, and so he understood the importance of longevity in sport, and I benefited from that. So even from a very early age, we were doing a lot of soft landings, um, you know, just really making sure that I could have longevity in my career. And so I really don't have that many issues. My shoulders really from something at the very end of my career that I didn't get fixed or do rehab on because I was retiring. So that was my bad. But um, I have hips and knees primarily, not necessarily due to gymnastics, but due to how I was born. So I have to kind of work on that quite a bit.

Let's talk about those Olympics because uh 92, Barcelona, you know, very successful. You had, as I said, the magnificent seven. What was that experience like for you um being able to participate and do so well?

1992 is just so incredible. 92 for me was um so amazing in so many ways. It was obviously it was my first Olympics. I had just turned 15 that summer, but I had also basically been counted out of those games. I had broken and dislocated my left elbow 10 weeks prior to the Olympic trials that year. And it was one of those moments where you think that that one instant, that one moment all is lost. And my coach was the one, Steve came to me the the day I was getting rolled out of the uh hospital after surgery. They put in a screw to hold the bone together. And I remember he looked down at me and he could have said all those things about, you know, oh, you know, it's too bad, or these things happen. And he looked at me and he said, All right, looks like we have some work to do. I'll see you in the gym tomorrow. And it was, it was not a harsh thing, it was, it was, I believe in you. If you want to give this a try, I believe in you, and it helped me believe in myself. And I was able to come back and make the team. And then that was the team that made the podium for the first time at a fully attended Olympics for women's gymnastics. We got third, which might as well have been a gold at that point, but it was that moment where we thought, we eat four more years, home Olympics, we can do this, we can get two more steps up to that gold by 1996.

Well, she definitely you live up to the mantra playing her, playing her, yeah, big time. Yeah.

Yes, and it's very interesting, and we we try to always talk about that as well because it's something that you have to learn as an athlete. When do you play through? And when do you say, okay, no, it's actually better for me and my career to to just stop, get fixed, get healed, and then go full force. And you have to learn, you know, where that line is, and it's different for everybody. But um uh but it was it was a great time for me. I loved being in Barcelona, and it, you know, the first day that you walk into the arena and there's thousands upon thousands of people cheering, and you see USA flags even over in Spain, and it was just so amazing. You know, this little girl from small town Oklahoma, and I get to represent my country.

I gotta ask you about that one moment before we go on to the Atlanta Olympics that when Kerry Shrugged, you know, did the vault and and landed on the her hurt ankle. You had you just mentioned your story about recovering from the elbow. But what was that like just to kind of be there for one of the signature moments in the history of United States gymnastics?

You know, it's so wild because now, many years later, 30 years later to be exact, um, I've now seen what people saw from the cover, the television coverage, which was so different, vastly different than what we felt down on the floor. So where we were, you're kind of below where the podium is, and you can't really see the end of the runway. So you kind of see her go up, but you can't really see the landing. So we're all cheering. We were able to watch the scores, but you know, people don't realize that like the coach yelling, go for it, is so far away. I'm not even sure if she would have heard that. Um, but it but on TV it looks like they're right there together. And so it's just a very interesting dynamic. But what sticks with me is something that Carrie has said, and that's hey, I didn't know what the score was, but it's the Olympics. I'm going to vault. And and it really is just that simple sometimes.

So, you know, the real thing that you know, again, 15 years old, you're at the Olympics. Okay. Now, you come back home, you go back to school. I got one question I gotta ask, and it's on here. Did you go to your prom? Because that was you must that must have been a long line.

I don't know. I was very I again, I was very shy. And for me, my childhood, I almost appreciated that I could use gymnastics as an excuse. I did not go to prom. I would have been absolutely terrified. It was just not a comfort zone for me. I was again just painfully, painfully shy. So for me to be able to go in the gym or go to a competition and and compete in front of thousands of people, I was more comfortable there than like going to prom at school. So I I didn't end up going to prom, but um, you know, for me, I I really enjoyed school. I loved education. My dad is an educator, and uh, and so I really was very blessed to have a great um, I went to public school, so it was great to have it was great to have that balance between just being a kid at school and then going to gym and doing this other thing, and I had that great balance in my life.

It's harder these days, as I see at our tennis academy here, to have that balance. A lot of the kids are homeschooled. I'm sure that's very similar now in the gymnastics world. But let's let's talk about 96 now, because I mean not only was it a huge success for you and for the gymnastics team, I think you had women's basketball, softball, and soccer also all won gold at those Olympic Games. So that was a pretty significant moment in women's sports history. What was it like to be part of that whole thing?

You know, it's so interesting because when you're at the Olympics, you're so focused on exactly what you're doing. It was, you know, wake up, train, go back, nap, go back, train or compete in the evening, and then go to sleep and rest and recover. It's it's a very regimented, at least it was for me. And it was also back in a time, if you know, people out there imagine there was no social media, there was barely any internet. Um, there wasn't this, um, it wasn't in your face the way that media and social media is now. So we were really in a in a bubble. We didn't know a lot of what was going on. It was just go to the arena and and compete. So for us, it wasn't until after we won the gold and after the Olympics where we really started understanding the historical moment, not just of our team, but of everything uh during the Atlanta games. So um, it's really been incredible. And I think I uh it might have been a decade before I truly understood the importance of what we had achieved at that time. You know, we just celebrated our 30th anniversary this summer. And for me, what I love is, you know, the gold medal is amazing. It is, you know, an achievement, but it's really a symbol of all that hard work and everything, the ups and downs that you go through. But what I love the most is that people will still come up to me today, this many years later, and they will know exactly where they were, what they were doing, who they were with, and they always have the biggest smile and they want to share that story, and I love hearing them because it was back still in a time where you gathered around the TV and everyone saw it at the same time, and and everyone was watching and waiting and wondering what was gonna happen, and it was just such an exciting moment for so many people, including us, and we just really appreciate the support along the way because you know we go out and we do what we do and we work hard and we enjoy gymnastics, and I love learning skills, but to be able to kind of put it together at the right time and to make people happy is such just an incredible, incredible thing to look back on.

Presented by Volition America, which gives 13% of its profits to Fold Zabon, sponsored by Fire Department Coffee, veteran-owned and run by firefighters.

We've been lucky enough to talk recently on this show to uh Mike Aruzioni, part of the 1980 Olympic gold medal hockey team, and Brandy Chastain, who um also was there at the Olympics when you were the great soccer player, and and what those moments meant to them and to the country, and we're hearing the same from you. Now I want to ask you about um Shannon making that uh that move when you're done being an athlete. You know, I had to do it, I was lucky enough to get into broadcasting. Here you earned degrees in marketing, entrepreneurship, and law school, which is pretty darn impressive and very difficult. How was the transition like? And then what prompted you to take all those things on?

I think the transition is always difficult when you go from whether it's professional or olympic or even collegiate athlete to kind of life post elite athlete, um, is very challenging, especially at For younger athletes, that that's all we've ever known. I knew gymnastics and I knew education. And my parents were very good about really, really reminding me every step along the way, and they loved that I enjoyed gymnastics and I was willing to, you know, go for it and work hard, but they always reminded me that education was the foundation for my future. Gymnastics is going to go at some point in one way or another. You're not going to be doing it when you're 50. So, you know, have that foundation. And so when I retired from Olympic gymnastics, I continued on with my college education. And I think that's what really helped me figure out this transition. Who am I without gymnastics? How do I, how do I function now that I don't have this structure that I've had since I was, you know, basically eight years old? And so, really, that first few years for me was all about figuring out how to be healthy and how to figure out health and fitness as a non-elite athlete because I couldn't just go and work out on a balance beam or swing around uneven bars. I had never been to an actual workout gym in my life. I'd never been on a treadmill. I'd never lifted a weight. We we don't do any of that. And so learning about that really got me involved. I did a ton of research and I was really excited about women's health and just kind of using my platform to help women and make their health a priority and not, you know, throw it to the back burner and in and focus on everything else. And so I did that and I was uh doing my extra two-year program for entrepreneurship. And then at the end of that, I had a uh business law class and realized I was already signing documents, I was already signing endorsements and different things, and I had no idea what they said. I mean, really what they said. And so that's when I thought, well, I I'm gonna go to law school. I'm gonna take the LSAT. And if somebody lets me in, I'll go. And if they don't, then I don't won't. I'll I'll switch gears. And um, and I really enjoyed law school, but I really wanted to focus on starting my business after that, and uh, and it's been great.

But uh share with us how you used the discipline that you put forth into gymnastics, now into school and the business world.

I don't think I know any other way. I only know structure. It's what I thrive on. I don't do a kind of wing-it uh mentality. I'm not good at that. So for me, um, I think I have to work on not being overstructured. And but for me, it's it's really just about the next goal. And it doesn't have to be a you know an Olympic level goal. It could be getting my six loads of laundry done today. But whatever that is, there's gonna be a goal, and I'm gonna do my very best to meet it. And then there's times when you fail or you miss the mark or you have to regroup. And I learned that in gymnastics as well. When you fall off the beam 10,000 times, you get up 10,000 and one, and you keep going and you find that next step. And so that's kind of how I live every area of my life as well.

Well, you got you got thrown for a loop, Shannon, about 15 years ago when you got diagnosed with ovarian cancer, which is v extremely serious. How did that, and and thank goodness you're cancer free, I believe for 15 years now, but how did that hit you and and and what did that do to you as far as changing your mindset? Because obviously we could see your mindset is so focused, driven, disciplined. But how did that change your world when you got that news?

I think cancer was an outlier. It was one of the hardest things for me to kind of comprehend, not because it was cancer, not because of the diagnosis, but because you can't outwork cancer. I was never the strongest or the most talented or the most flexible girl in the gym, but I would outwork anyone. You can't outwork cancer. You have to be patient, you have to have a little bit of grace for yourself. And you just have to kind of take your time and work through uh the different, you know, depending on if you have chemotherapy or radiation or whatnot. For me, I was um diagnosed six months after I launched my company focused on women's health. And it was at a random doctor's appointment. I went in, told my doctor I felt fine, and he said, Well, let's hold up because you might have an issue here. And that kind of sent me into a whirlwind of tests and scans. And then I ended up waking up from surgery to find out that it was ovarian cancer. Uh, went through chemotherapy, which was um, I think the toughest thing I've ever had to do was just get through chemotherapy. But you learn a lot, you know, it's kind of leave the bad, take the good. And for me, I learned a couple of things. One was that team doesn't end when sports ends. And that was a really tough one for me because as a survivor, I didn't want to ask for help. I didn't want to complain or be a burden to anyone. And what I realized was that it was really kind of silly for me to try to do this on my own because I would never do that in sport. I never made it to an Olympics on my own. I had coaches and parents and the people who set up the equipment and make my grips and you know, all of the function of the team to get you to that spot. Why would I not want and ask for and accept that help during chemotherapy and during cancer treatment? So that was a big lesson for me is that there really is strength in asking for that help when you need it. And I think the other thing. Oh, I was just gonna say the other thing was just kind of to stop and smell the roses because I am so goal-oriented. A lot of times I do kind of skip to the next goal after I came home from the 92 games. I had won five medals, I was back in the gym three days later, and I I loved it, but I realized in my life I don't stop and smell the roses as much as I probably should.

So I went through something not as almost similar, but not as uh drastic. I had an aneurysm. I was telling people that, yeah, you know, I had this little surgery I had to go through, and uh I'm gonna be laid up for a little bit, but I'll be okay. And then, you know, I was laid up for quite a while, and I kept saying to myself, I've done so many things by myself without anyone's help. And, you know, look, I prayed a lot, and uh I'm a big believer in that. And praying is good, it helps heal. And, you know, I was like, there's no nobody can really help me, but there's people that can help you get through it. And that was something that took me probably about two months after I had my surgery, and you know, I was laid up for about a year. Uh I fought through uh everything, and you know, I would be in a room, but I wouldn't be in the room, you know. It would be like my mind was not there, and obviously, when you're wearing a ski hat in September and it's 95 degrees now, everybody's looking at you like. What's going on? What's going on? You're going, hold on with Big Daddy, you know, like I'm like, no, I have these train tracks that I'm trying to hide. But uh, yeah, I get I definitely understand and get what you're saying when you know you you should accept help when you want help. You know, and people that care are there to help, you know. So I had the biggest joke that I went through was I'm laying in the hospital and I'm in the ICU, and the lady, the nurse says to me, you know, I'm turning your phone off because I'm getting tired of answering the phone. Too many messages. Yeah, so and because I can't talk because my face is out the air, my mouth, I'm like mumbling. So my brother says to the nurse if everyone knew that he was here right now, you would need a security guy at the elevator. Because all these people, and I had some incredible friends, you know, Adam Schefter, these guys, all that knew and came and you know, visited me, even though I was kind of half in the bag. But just that emotional support, I mean, it's priceless, you know, priceless.

It is, it matters, every little bit of it matters, and when you're on the other side and you see someone going through it, a friend or a family member, you want to give everything, you want to help in whatever way you possibly can. And so trying to kind of remember that it's a gift both ways is important.

Absolutely. Uh absolutely to to change topics a little bit, Shannon. I understand there is a little bit of tennis in your family. So a little birdie told me that your son is a pretty good player, and in fact, he plays on his high school team. And is it true that he came to New York and was on the court at Arthur Ash Stadium at the US Open?

Yes, oh my gosh. So he loves tennis and uh and he plays um on his high school team. He plays varsity, and he he just loves it. And I love that he loves it because it's a lifetime sport, it's so healthy in so many ways. And so I'm I'm a big proponent of of continuing on with tennis, but we had the wonderful opportunity. I got asked to be a part of Military Appreciation Day um a couple years ago, and I but I can't I couldn't play. I was just too um close to being out with a surgery and everything. I said, Well, my son plays, could he come and maybe he could kind of pinch it for me in the actual like playing? And said, Yes, that would be great. And he had the best time. I mean, what 14-year-old gets to play on Arthur Ash? I mean, just it's crazy.

We would we would love to have him and you come here to our academy, which we're by the way, about 10 minutes away from where the U.S. Open is played, but right here on Randall's Island in New York City. So we would love to have you. By the way, one of our sponsors, our new sponsors, Volition America, honors our military. They give 13% to folds to honor. Um, so I want you to know about that because I know you do a lot of public speaking yourself now. Um, so when can we expect to hear you deliver the gold medal mindset?

Well, I I love giving that talk. And of course, I you know, Taylor for whoever I'm speaking to, but I love first of all, thank you. We would love to take you up on that uh next time we're in New York. But um, and again, I just it's it was such an honor to be there for the military uh that we're we're there and in just a such a special occasion. So we loved that. Um I love talking about the gold medal mindset. I do a lot of corporate speaking, I do a lot of speaking with regard to health, but the gold medal mindset is my favorite because it really just talks about all the things that sports teaches you, but you don't have to wear a leotard to learn them. The goal setting and teamwork and um positive mindset, commitment to excellence, all of those things that it doesn't matter if you're focused on athletics or art or music or you know, running a company, they're always important. And uh, and so I just love talking about this.

So there's a we were laughing earlier because uh our producer said that you were thinking about making a comeback. What's that about? Could that be possible, Jen?

Yes.

Um I would say thinking about it always, doing it never. No, you know, it's funny because you've got LA 28 coming up, and and you were two years away, and right now you is kind of when you have to decide whether you're throwing your hat in the ring or not. And so I was joking that uh, but gosh, I mean, it's gonna be it's it's the first summer games in the US since we competed. I mean, I only have to you used to have to do all four events. Now you only have to do one event. I can figure out one event, right? I'll throw the leotard on and and then I get up in the morning and my bones creak, and I think, no, maybe I'll just talk about the great athletes competing.

Not to mention all the other things you got going, in addition to being obviously a great mom. All right, we like to do this thing where as we get ready to wrap it up, things you can't Google about someone. So we obviously know we know a lot about you, but what's something that we can't, like let's say for what would be your dream meal if you could have one meal? What would Shannon have on her plate?

Oh goodness. My husband makes fun of me because I could eat the same thing every single day. I'd probably probably be grilled chicken, broccoli, and a sweet potato.

That sounds pretty good, but very healthy.

What do you got? Um I always seem to ask the same question, but uh let me ask you this. Do you sing in the shower?

Sometimes I sing in the car a lot. But nobody actually ever needs to hear me sing. It's not pretty.

Do you have um Sirius XM in your car?

I don't right now. I let it laugh.

You let it laugh, okay? Because I always have, you know, my station. So what music, what genre would you be listening to in your car? Are you gonna be a little bit more? I like a little country girl?

I well, I am a country girl, so I am happy with some Keith Urban. Um, I absolutely, but I listen to a little bit of everything. So it kind of depends on what's going on that day, if I need a mood lift, or I just want to chill, or I just want something where I know the words and I can sing it at the top of my lungs.

I love it. I love it. All right, because I got my girls, you know, they started singing. I have three teenage uh daughters, and they I put on the 70s and you know, Fleetwood Mac and Jackson Brown, and all of a sudden they started singing all the Fleetwood Mac. They knew all the words. I said, girls, how did you know? Oh, Dad, it's all over TikTok. Come on, you're you're you're way behind it. So, you know, it's good to know what you can learn from your kids. All right, last thing I want to ask you though, before we let you go, we so appreciate Chan and your time. You took your three degrees, you built something cool and impressive in Salto or Health. Tell us about that and why you got into it.

Uh, thank you for mentioning that. So I guess I launched Salto Health, which um you know, when someone gets diagnosed with cancer, everyone says, let me know if you need anything. How can I help? And often as a survivor, you never know what to say. I mean, you're just you're dealing with everything coming at every angle. You don't know what to say. So Salto Health fixes that. It's um a platform with curated products specific to the cancer journey, and basically it's a gift registry for that cancer journey. So you can go on, you can add specific items, um, head covers, skin care, everyday essentials, things that actually help. And then all you do is share your link with friends and family that want to know how to help. And then they can they can help without guessing. Um, instead of getting 15 casseroles that you can't fit in your freezer, you're you're getting the things you actually need. So it's it's just a very, very simple idea that I put into practice and I thought, what would I have wanted? What would my mother, who's a two-time survivor, have wanted? And and let's build that.

Awesome. Well, Shannon, we so appreciate you uh spending this much time with us. We appreciate it. And uh, you could come visit us anytime. And I'd pay big money to see you on a tennis court, maybe do a little back trip for me, too, as well. Yeah, that I can do. Yeah, that would like to say. Exactly. All the best, and thanks so much. And uh, we we we love having you on and keep doing what you're doing.

Uh, thank you both so much. Good to be with you.

Jack Miller, everyone here on MacDaddy. Volition America is an authentic, disruptive brand of clothing that ultimately gives back. So every time the consumer makes a choice to buy Volition America, they're changing their lives, but they're also changing the life of a military or first responder family benefiting Folds of Honor. And that is a combination that, quite frankly, does not exist in the world.

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Confident without trying too hard. Interesting the second I walk into a room. Maybe a little smoky, maybe a little dangerous, you know, effortlessly charismatic. Not everyone has that. Some people build it over time, others just born with it. I wouldn't know anything about that, of course. Strip away the noise.